In Conversation: Matthew Spencer & dave ring

As part of the kickstarter for Neon Hemlock’s next anthology, Unfettered Hexes: Queer Tales of Insatiable Darkness, we are delighted to share a conversation between editor dave ring and artist Matthew Spencer about tarot.

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dr: Hey Matt, I’m so excited for you to be a part of this project! It was really cool working with you on the first Baffling cover and rad that we’ll get to do another one together so soon with Unfettered Hexes.

MS: That Baffling cover was such a joy to illustrate, and I have no doubts that creating work for Unfettered Hexes will be just as incredible, if not more. The theme of this anthology just begs for a companion oracle deck. My fingers are crossed that we hit that goal! In the meantime though…

Do you have a favorite deck?

I’m going to cheat and talk about a few decks. So the Sinking Wasteland deck from Pixel Occult is what brought me back to tarot recently. It explores a lot of post-apocalyptic themes that really resonate with me. My only complaint maybe is that the color palette is a bit muted. The color palette is one of the reasons I love the Modern Witch deck by Lisa Sterle. It takes the traditional Rider-Waite style and updates it with a lot of modern symbology, all with a a rad femme energy. And then the Next World Tarot by Christy C. Road is probably the most powerful deck I’ve found that really harnesses radical queer energy. 

And then for a cheat on a cheat, I’m really covetous of the Slow Holler deck. Marianne has given me a reading or two from it and it’s really evocative.

What initially drew you to tarot?

I’m probably going to be extremely predictable when I say that what’s drawn me to tarot has been ultimately the same since I was first introduced to tarot by a good friend back in middle school: it’s the art. I’ve always loved beautiful illustrations, and initially I think it was appeal as a viewer and a reader, but since those early days, I’ve really come to appreciate the opportunity that tarot decks present to artists. It’s the chance to combine one’s own visual language with recognizable subject matter so that those even vaguely familiar with tarot may be able to appreciate the symbolism and details in an illustration. Tarot provides such fantastic open ended prompts to work with as an artist- and then the fact that upon use, viewers/readers of the cards may gain deeper meaning or insight into their own lives by way of one’s illustrations—it’s such a neat purpose to create for.

What about you—what initially drew you to Tarot?

The first deck I ever used was my grandma’s Rider-Waite. I remember feverishly reading the booklet after pulling each card, desperate to know my future. Sometimes that fever is still there, but I definitely think of the cards as a route to interrogating my own present for the aspects of it that I haven’t been paying enough attention to. And I agree with everything you’re saying about parsing visual languages. That’s why I love the different interpretations that artists bring to each deck.

You’ve been exploring tarot in a few other projects, most obviously your Courtly Beasts series. Of the cards you've done so far, which are you most proud of? 

I’m really very proud of The High Priestess. She took a long time to feel out. I did probably five different rounds of thumbnails over the course of a couple years before I settled on the final composition. I actually had inks done for one version but the vibe was just wrong so I started over. It was totally worth it because the feeling in the final illustration is just what I was going for- the simultaneous sense of mystery and insight. It was actually a case where I had one color scheme in mind the whole time and refused to let myself use it without exploring every other option first. I'm really trying to go with my gut whenever possible with this deck, The High Priestess really reinforced that for this at least, I should stop fighting that instinct. Feels a little on the nose now that I write it out, but that's just how it went.

Is there a particular card you tend to identify with?

Sometimes! In the Modern Witch deck, I remember seeing the Hermit and thinking oof, yes. The Moon is another card I look at, when deciding if I vibe with a deck. And the Nine of Swords in the Next World tarot totally changed how I look at that card.

When you think about illustrating tarot, especially the major arcana, are there any you’ve noticed yourself putting off or that you’re nervous about interpreting?

I know that there will be some that don’t come as easy, and that’s actually why I finished The Hermit before The High Priestess. I had told myself I wanted to illustrate the major arcana in order so that I didn’t procrastinate on any, but then of course I had this really clear vision for The Hermit and The High Priestess was being difficult, so that all went to hell. I should be back on track now. I do think the traditionally non-figurative ones are going to pose the greatest challenge to me. Wheel of Fortune and The Tower specifically.  

What card do you feel represents the vibe (or a vibe) of Unfettered Hexes?

There are a few contenders, but I feel like the Magician’s potential is too hard to ignore. She has all the tools at her disposal, and we’re just waiting to see what she does next.

So I did a three card reading for you, like we talked about.  Here it is: 

These are cards from the Next World Tarot. 

In your past, I’ve drawn Temperance.  In your present, the Knight of Swords.  And Justice in your future.

When I see Temperance, I ask folks to think about their push and pull.  Have you been salving your wounds at the same rate as you accrue them?  Are you giving yourself time to build as much as you tear down?  Figuring out those rhythms is so important for just waking up each day and feeling enough.  

I love the Knight of Swords in Next World.  They have that Mad Max energy, that whipping through the desert gonna mess stuff up vibe.  If this is you, I wanna jump in your ride.  If it’s someone else in your life, I’d pay attention to the Regina George moment when next it happens, and don’t hesitate.

Justice in Next World Tarot is explicitly about agitation, checking your comfort zone, and looking at your participation in systems of power.  It’s about making noise even when the machine is grinding you down.  “Is my heart present?” the card asks, and if that’s not a pulse check worth having, I don’t know what is.

Ahh that’s a fantastic spread, thank you so much. Super apt cards to come up, particularly that Knight of Swords. That’s a vibe I’m trying to take with me into 2021.

For your reading, I drew from The Tarot of The Divine (by Yoshi Yoshitani), with occupational/artistic growth in mind.

In your past we have The Magician (represented by the Fairy Godmother), in your present, The Fool (The Little Mermaid), and in your future, Nine of Coins (The Legend of the Watermelon).

The Magician suggests the manifestation of desires, using what resources you’ve got at hand; trusting yourself & your abilities and focusing to achieve your goals. What opportunities have you been putting your mind to? Do you have any goals that have been within your grasp and only need a bit of attention (or the flick of a wand) to become reality?

With The Fool in your present, we have the chance for bright new beginnings and a whole wide world of possibilities.  What great unknowns are you looking forward to? Is there any creative endeavor you’re eager to dive into, regardless of the risk?

The Nine of Coins presents us with the image of a bountiful harvest, the rewards reaped after a long, worthwhile effort. The time and energy you’ve dedicated to your work may be paying off soon. It’s important to recognize your own achievements. Allow yourself time to be proud of what goals you have accomplished before you move on to what’s next.

Oof, thank you so much.  As came up today during our second #UnfetteredChat, I am always Team Sea Witch, but as an April 1st baby, I keep an eye on the Fool, always.  Will try to carry this energy onward. 

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Unfettered Hexes: Queer Tales of Insatiable Darkness is live on Kickstarter now. While our initial goal is already funded, help us get to $18,000 in order to reach out next stretch goal: a deck of oracle cards, based on the stories in Unfettered Hexes, created by Matt and dave.